Stuart, Prof. Chester J. - Oral History (transcript)

              Fairfield University
Oral History Transcripts
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Chester J. Stuart
Professor Emeritus, Department of Modern
Languages and Graduate School of Education
April 1992
Professor Chester J. Stuart
a brief biography
“You don't have a university without students. You can have a brilliant faculty, but if
you don't have students, you don't have a university.”
Professor Chester J. Stuart was born in Newburyport, Massachusetts, on May 1,
1916. After grammar school, his early education was with the Society of the Divine
Word, Minor and Major Seminary, in Techny, Illinois. From 1940 to 1943, he worked
as a tool setter machinist in the Scovill Manufacturing Company in Waterbury,
Connecticut. Professor Stuart received his A.B. in Modern Languages with a Minor in
Education from the University of Connecticut in 1944 and earned his master’s degree
in German from Columbia University in 1947. During the years 1946 through 1960,
he did additional graduate work in philosophy at Fordham University and New York
University and in psychology at Yale University. Before joining the Fairfield faculty in
1947, he taught at Fordham Prep School in New York and Gannon College in Erie,
Pennsylvania. Professor Stuart is one of four laymen who were members of the first
college faculty. During his 34-year tenure at Fairfield, he has taught German, English,
American literature and education courses, teaching in both undergraduate and
graduate programs. In this time, he has also served as varsity baseball coach,
member of the library committee, German Club moderator, Education Club
moderator, and a frequent faculty commentator on the talk show “Fairfield University
Interprets the News,” broadcast for several years in the 1950s on radio station
WNAB. Professor Stuart was also a popular lecturer, with speaking engagements at
Norwalk Hospital School of Nursing, the American Institute of Banking, Southern
Connecticut State College, Notre Dame of Wilton, and the University of Bridgeport.
He has written with Fairfield professors Anthony Costa and William J. Garrity a
descriptive text in Educational Psychology, published by Collegium Press, and he
worked with his wife Barbara A. Stuart to produce a manual in theories of learning.
Professor Stuart received a Distinguished Faculty/ Administrator Service Award from
the Fairfield University Alumni Association in 1981; an honorary degree, Doctor of
Humane Letters, from Fairfield in 1984; and in 2000 Fairfield conferred on Professor
Stuart a 50th Anniversary Medal.
Source: Faculty-Staff Publicity Files, Box 10, Folder “Chester J. Stuart.” Fairfield University Archives and
Special Collections.
Photograph: Fairfield University Manor, 1957.
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INTERVIEW WITH
PROFESSOR CHESTER STUART
4/92
The students went into the Library. We took that time was on the
first floor of Canisius and they opened the cage where all the
forbidden books were, there were books on the Church index. That, of
course, has changed now. But again, that made the New York Times and
these were really some of the only expressions of student revolt and
student concern. You can ask me what questions you want -- what have
you got in mind?
-.
QUESTION $1. VHS a (0-00-20) THAT'LL BE FINE. I'LL JUST WAIT
FOR THEM IN THERE TO GET ALL HOOKED UP AND SET. LET'S JUST KEEP
GOING. WHY DON'T YOU SPEAK TO ME ABOUT THE G.E. COLLEGE BOWL? YOU
WERE CHATTING ABOUT HOW IMPORTANT THAT WAS FOR THE UNIVERSITY.
ANSWER: That was important as far as publicity -- national
publicity because this had television exposure. I also won and there
were individuals, but we have failed to mention in many of our
university accounts that we had a very early F~llbr~ighStc holar and
that was Jerome Mayer who teaches in Ridgefield at I forget the name
of the High School, but he was multi-lingual, he was an altar boy.
Our early classes were, of course, principally Veterans and these
Veterans showed a maturity and as the younger ones came along, the
younger students, we found a difference and I ultimately, when I have
a chance, get into the Graduate School to teach. After 20 years of
undergraduate, I was a little old and felt
I didn't want to fool around with student problems. Strange
thing, you have just as many problems there and you had illiteracy
that was unbelievable on the graduate level.
9UESTION $2, VHS U (0-01-541 IF I CAN JUST BRING YOU BACK. YOU
FIRST JOINED THE UNIVERSITY IN 1947. IS THAT RIGHT?
ANSWER : Yes. I had taught for the Jesuits at Fordham Prep. Prior
to that, I was, now let's go back a bit further, I was with the
Religious order for 11 years in , Illinois the Divine Word
Fathers, so the discipline was the same and the studies for the
Priests were the same. I left before ordination and then in
drifting, I came to Fordham University to study Philosophy for no
special reason, but I thought I'd like to do work in Philosophy.
While there, I had an opportunity to teach at the Prep. That's where
I met Carmen Donnarumma. Carmen Donnarumma began, as a student, he
must have started in '42, so he has been with the Jesuits for 50
years, 42 on this campus, but he was a student there, did his
graduate work in History. My first teaching assignment was Latin,
German, English, Theology and Hygiene. That was a freshman class.
QUESTION #3. VHS U (0-03-171 THAT WAS HERE AT THE
UNIVERSITY...HERE AT FAIRFIELD OR AT FORDHAM PREP?
ANSWER: Fordham Prep. I went to Gannon College in Erie for one
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 2
year where I taught Latin, Greek, American Literature and then
through contact again with Carmen, they were opening here, I was
interviewed and accepted so I taught all the German, beginners,
intermediate, advanced, 19th Century Drama and Romanticism. And of
course, most of the Pre-Meds had to take the German or French
and for whatever reason because they were using the old mental
disciplined theory that these subjects owned the faculties of the
mind. The students, the Pre-Meds were concerned about professional
preparation and that, of course, was their concern while the Jesuits
were interested in the Humanistic Education and educating the whole
man and that, of course, Humanism in a narrow sense, well they wanted
the Classics and Literature. So, today if you were talking and we
a are still in the Humanities here at Fairfield, we certainly are
because Mortimer Adler said concerning the Humanities, the basic
knowledge that should be the position of every human being, so today
you have to have Science and the Media. You have to have television
and you have to have, of course, your computers. So, when you say
Humanities, they restricted it in those early days to the Classics
and they spelled it out. In fact, they gave us a handle -- Don Ross
did -- but they gave us a handle to come back. There were 15 of
them, 14 of us in the first faculty and 4 of us were laymen, Carmen,
Art Riel (that's too bad you missed him in the program because he
died about 3 weeks ago) and John Cody who taught Accounting (he was a
part-timer) and myself. So, my first assignment was German and in
addition to that, you were kind of utility-fielder. Whenever they
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 3
wanted you and I had had those years of philosophical, theological
preparation and the Classics, so I taught, in addition, a course in
English and then the Scientific German...we finally were able to
convince the University that our Pre-Meds would fare best with
Scientific German and they ate it up. In those days, we were getting
periodicals from Germany for translation. We were talking about
body parts and these things had not occurred here and suddenly we
were thrust right into the midst of it. So, the University certainly
does adjust itself to the changing times. They're not a vocational
preparation institution. Some of the Jesuit schools are forced into
it because of lower enrollment. Here at Fairfield, enrollment is no
problem and therefore, the Jesuits can present what they wish.
They're not controlled by the need of money from tuition.
9UESTION $4, VHS (0-07-10) WHAT WAS THE UNIVERSITY LIKE WHEN
YOU FIRST CAME HERE IN THE LATE FORTIES? I MEAN, WHAT WAS IT LIKE
HERE? DO YOU RECALL?
ANSWER: Are you talking about the grounds?
QUESTION (CTN) . THE PHYSICAL PLAN?
Oh, the physical plan. This was kind of a beautiful wilderness. You
had, and if you take a look at the first Yearbook, 1951, there were
only 2 buildings. We had one building which we just completed. That
was Berchmans Hall and my first classes, while we were conducting
class, they were still putting in chalkboards and one of the
Oral History.: Chester Stuart Page 4
gentlemen as an aside, putting in the chalkboards listened to my
German and at the end of the class he said to me "I'm German." He
said, "But you speak German with a Boston accent!" Everything was
simplified. You had ...p arki,ng was hard to come by and of course, we
had a few students, 325, but you had your outdoor basketball courts
built by our Dean, Father Larry Langguth., so he was a master of
everything and sometimes I think if you still go through Berchmans
and Xavier, the classroom, the chalkboards are put up so high, he was
. a 6-footer and T think
that when he arranged it, it was for himself, so the shorter
Professor never reached the top of the chalkboard. The cafeteria was
simple, downstairs and you had your hamburgers and fast foods, we
a would call them in those days. One of the humorous things ... one of
our students wrote -for the Bridgeport Herald, in those days it was a
scandal sheet and he was a line of the Bridgeport Herald and he
complained about Fairfield's cafeteria. This is normal in every
college in the country, cafeterias serve garbage, so he was asked to
leave and find happiness elsewhere, so Tom Allen, I remember him
distinctly, because he then went to U.B., got his degree, joined the
New York Daily News, became a Feature Writer on Labor, has published
7 books and was on one of the Boards of Directors, National
Geographic and I'm sure he's not a member of our President's Circle,
so we do make mistakes. Another one, I don't know if Don Ross
brought this'up, Father Clancy ... see in the Jesuit ... right from the
beginning, the concern was two things. One was academic excellence
Oral History.: Chester Stuart Page 5
and the other spirituality, so when we say we think about the . . . .
being the base, not so, the biggest thing was spirituality and in
fact, we began with everyone initialing their examples, A.M.D.G., ad
maorium de gloria. We began our classes at the sign of the quad. We
had academic freedom. When I...~outhern'~onnecticut and Danbury
State, if you got involved at all in Religion, you would get a note
from the Dean saying you were violating the Church and State, so I
found more academic freedom here. I could pray or not pray. Go back
to Father Clancy. He was absolutely fantastic. He was the Ethics
teacher. In those days, everyone
took 4 courses in Philosophy and 4 in Theology, a total of 24
credits was devoted to the basic Philosophy and Theology and Father
a Clancy's class, he had you practically regurgitating a Catholic
ethic. If you did not agree with him, you became an August graduate
and on one occasion there were as many as 30, I think, who had to
remain during the summer to complete their senior work. So, he
demanded. So some people say, wWell, that's not very liberalw, but
if you notice today's headlines, the Bridgeport Post, guilty, guilty,
guilty which means society wants norms and we bring these people
before a court and deal with them and criminal justice because
society wants a right and a wrong. Father Clancy made sure you knew
what was right or wrong because he said so, but it became a tradition
and the kids always loved it. It's like going to the Prep and never
having been jugged. If you're not jugged, you really were not in a
Jesuit Preparatory School, so this, I'm bringing in all kinds of odds
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 6
and ends.
QUESTION 45. VHS 10-13-01) WHAT WAS IT LIKE, YOU WERE ONE OF 4
LAY FACULTY AT THE BEGINNING WITH THE JESUITS? WHAT WAS IT LIKE
BEING JUST ONE OF THE 4 WITH ALL THE OTHER PROFESSORS BEING JESUITS?
ANSWER: This was perfect. I had no problem because I had had that
religious orientation and seminary training and it was almost semi-monastic,
but there was absolutely perfect rapport with the Jesuits.
They were very understanding people. We did not have written
contracts. My first salary was $230/month and we received, I brought
along a copy for you to see what one of the contracts would look
like, and up until 1964, I finally reached a salary of $7400. Now,
when Father McInnes came in in '64, Father
McInnes recognized the need for salary adjustment. He did not
have much of an opportunity for Sabbaticals. If you took one, you
did it on your own and they didn't have the money to do anything, but
Father McInnes raised salaries, Father McInnes opened the doors to
the community. It's like Pope John in Vatican 11. He was a great
man and he, of course, suffered from all the barbs and criticism
because he was still a Jesuit and if some ... was to be declared to
be so, that was it. Come back to original question. It was very
easy to get along with them because if they say "Yesw, you could do
it and if they said "Now, then you didn't ask them again. If they
said, "Maybew, they were getting the Provincial's permission. They
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 7
understood our needs and contracts were renewed orally in the
hallway. In Spring, Father Langguth came to me in '48 and said
"Starting in September, you're getting another $150" so my salary was
up to $390 a month and that was fantastic. Now, the change came in
when there was an influx of new lay faculty and this was approaching
bad times, the 608s, Vietnam War and when these people came in, they
were the younger group and they were not used to taking direction, so
they wanted things spelled out. Well, the Jesuits spelled them out
and they spelled them out in the contract-that was very rigid, much
more rigid than anything we ever had. Evaluation of faculty
teaching, they made such a big issue of it today and in those days,
the Provincial Prefect from Boston, would come in and observe your
classes once a year and you would get an immediate on-spot
evaluation, right after class out in the hallway. He didn't have to
call an attorney or
AAUP, it was just very forthright. When they accepted you, they
accepted you after having checked your credentials and they wanted to
see performance but the relationship with the Jesuits, some remained
my friend for all of these years and a couple, very close who helped
me during times when things were bad, emotionally. And my son was in
Vietnam, these people stepped in and they understood your problem,
but there was no difficulty. Your own religion experience, the
opportunity was there for any kind of religious counseling or
spiritual counseling. If you did not want any, they never interfered
with your Catholicism or lack of it. That was never a challenge.
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 8
One of our students is Paul Klemont who. is a criminal lawyer and a
great benefactor of Fairfield. He was an Orthodox Greek and took
Theology. He did not have to take it, and I often teased him about
it, "If you want to be converted, 1'11 be your Godfather." And he
said, III1m happy where I am." He is one of the finest benefactors,
so the relationship with the Jesuits never any fear nor favor; they
simply accepted you on the basis of your productivity and of course,
your honesty.
-..
9UESTION $ 6 , VHS (0-18-021 I INTERVIEWED LARRY LANGGUTH. I
THINK WE INTERVIEWED HIM A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO AND I WAS TALKING TO
HIM AT THE TIME BECAUSE I HAD READ THAT IN THE EARLY DAYS WHEN THERE
WERE NO DORMS HERE, THE STUDENTS WHO DIDN'T LIVE IN THE AREA HAD TO
LIVE IN SOME OF THE HOMES OF THE RESIDENTS AND I HAD READ THAT HE
WOULD GO AND INVESTIGATE THESE HOMES TO MAKE SURE THEY WERE GOOD
PLACES FOR THE STUDENTS TO LIVE.
ANSWER: Oh yes, the Jesuits were always ... look our principle ...y ou
don't have a university without students. You can have a brilliant
faculty, but if you don't have students, you don't have a university
and th/i/s is what I keep inferring. The need to recognize the
/'
achievement, but you have to have the proper atmosphere, you have to
work in the good medium. To mention Father Larry Langguth. Father
Langguth was lovingly referred to by the other Jesuits as 'the
Prussianl because he made the same demands of the Jesuits as he did
of the laity. The school had to be run in an orderly fashion.
Everything had to be. He would...if some of the students would park
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 9
in the faculty parking spaces, he would post a bulletin that he would
use an ice pick on the tires if they didn't move their vehicles.
There was never any fear, nor favor; it was a wonderful atmosphere.
I want to point this out. I mentioned this to Father Kelley. We
rarely lose faculty members. The fact that as they are retiring,
you'll read, in the saddle for 39 years, Carmen is leaving after 42,
all of the people who have left have left under protest. They wanted
to continue, but you can see, again, their judgment in talking
. .-
about 70, because physical ailments can step in and thatlll
create a problem for them. But the faculty must be treated well
because you never had faculty protest. There was only one time when
faculty challenged the salaries and that was, of course, during the
a Vietnam period and recently, back about 3 years ago, they had a
heated discussion about salaries and the Jesuits made an adjustment.
In fact, they got a magnificent raise, I think in 3 years, it
amounted to something like 24%, so they were well-treated, well-treated.
9UESTION fi VHS (0-20-52) THE STUDENTS IN THE EARLY DAYS,
PROFESSOR STUART, THE FIRST CLASSES I GUESS WERE RETURNING VETERANS
BY AND LARGE.
ANSWER: Many of them.
9UESTION ~ tCTN). WHAT WERE THEY LIKE EXACTLY?
ANSWER : They worked hard and they played hard and that included
even the basketball team, so everything they did, they did with
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 10
@ enthusiasm. I have a couple of nice stories, but they can be
eliminated from the tape, or if you want to sell the tape, you can
ask for many of those who would like to buy, a donation to the
University of $5000 each. Some of these students were fantastic. I
had one who had been absent for two weeks, a Veteran and there was a
custom here that if you-missed 3 classes, you lost your credit for
the course unless you had a good excuse, but I violated that rule.
They were all adults and I had experienced the veterans in Yen
College and Erie, so I would, on one occasion, I asked the young man,
I1Look, you have been absent now for two weeks, I have to report this,
this is the regulation, tell me, what was your problem?" For my own
satisfaction, he
said, !'My mother killed my father." And that was a fact. The
father was a wife-beater and the mother, like Lizzy Borden, took an
axe to the father, so he had to resolve that problem and there were
others who would come to us for guidance. One young man gave his
girlfriend an engagement ring. They broke the engagement, she wanted
to keep it. The usual. The stories of today. They also resented,
let us say, the severity in the classroom, or lack of opportunity for
self-expression. These older people wanted to be treated like
adults, but having taught at the Prep, my methods were rather
authoritarian and in the student newspaper on one occasion, there
appeared on the first page, the front page, in the box, I1Hitler was a
German, Stuart was a German, Hitler made mistakes, Stuart made
mistakes, Hitlerls knowledge is mistakes, Stuart bought a White
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 11
Pontiac Convertible.I1 (laughter) A sense of humor. Also, if you
look in the yearbook, I still have not figured out what the initials
stand for, but they were able to sneak in, these boys loved to drink
their beer, so they were able to put into the yearbook a picture of a
club; you had your German Club, your French Club, Italian Club,
Sedala, they had the FILO Club. I never found out what that meant,
but they were a drinking society and they were known to go out on
occasion and get thoroughly ossified. They also, I was Moderator of
the Education Club and on one occasion in-Sullivanls Bar and Grill
after a basketball game, they invited me and it was time, I think,
for an evaluation of faculty, so they did their own evaluation.
First they served beer and I can recall sitting at a booth...there
were 7 of us and they brought a us a tray with 47 glasses of beer;. I mean, they were lusty so we
drank and when we finished, they asked "Do you want a good evaluation
here or do you want to leave?" So they did tell me point-blank what
they thought of some of my tactics. And we'll bring Father Langguth
back. I was so angry with one class. They would leave in the
afternoon. We had some classes that started at 3 in the afternoon.
These kids were tired and they have enough to get a couple of brews
right down at the beach, so they wou-ld come back, all wearing
sunglasses so you could not tell, and when you had a class of 16-20
wearing sunglasses, so I, they were not performing and at that time,
we were reading Goethels Faust and I said, "As a punishment for non-performance,
I want you to give me a line-by-line vocabulary of 2,000
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 12
lines of Goethels Faust. They went to Father Langguth and
complained. The only time I was ever called in and reprimanded.
Father Langguth reprimanded me and said II~his is not the Prep, we
don't use 'jug', we don't give punishment^.^^ He said, I1That's
terrible, give them l,OOO!ll That was one occasion; I will probably
think of a couple more, but again, I said to the students --baseball,
try to start any kind of activity. The students initiated and they
made demands. They wanted their sports, they wanted a winning team,
they wanted a winning basketball team which we still have not had,
except for a couple of years, but on one occasion, this again is on
the tape, but off the record. One of the students after the
basketball game and he was one of the basketball players. At the end
of a losing'season, he bashed in a sporting goods store window in
Fairfield,
so of course, he was caught, reprimanded and he took trophies out
of the window to present to the basketball players. Now, this young
man, they could have expelled him and so forth, but what happened? I
remember he was seated on the step at my home on Bronson Road and he
said, ''What will I do? I've been suspended for two weeks.I1 I said,
''Go home and tell your father.'' ''My father will kill me.'' He went
home, told his father, his father killed him. But this man became
the President of two colleges and universities, he is now a learned
Professor at Fairleigh Dickinson and he has two Doctorates, so if we
had dumped him at that time, this young man, we don't know where he
would have gone.
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 13
QUESTION $8, VHS #J. (0-28-22) YOU COACHED THE VARSITY BASEBALL
TEAM FOR A WHILE.
ANSWER: Second year and in those days, we had to get our bases
from the Prep lockers and we had a limited schedule, but we played
the Bridgeport B's. They were the semi-professional team. Frank
Feroleto, who is now President of Feroleto Steel, is the one who
wanted baseball and he was a catcher. I think of him often because
varicose veins on one leg, a foul drive while I was coaching on third
base, but we played unofficial baseball with various teams. One
included the old Arnold College of Physical Education. Andy
Robustelli then was a student there and we ultimately got two of
their students, football players, who were on the, were in the
@ Graduate School, working for their Master's Degree, but we just
played at-random and one of our boys, Norm Fahey had a short stint
even in those early days with one of the professional teams, I
believe the Brooklyn Dodgers. Then, Joe
Brosley took over and he had an assistant and it was George
Thomas and George Thomas is now teaching at the Prep and has been
there about 40 years, teaching at the Prep. So, we had to ...
whenever they asked all of us we taught. When I went into the
Graduate School, I taught a General Psych, Adolescent Psych, Theories
of Learning, Philosophical Foundations of Education, Historical
Foundations of Education and Comparative Philosophy, so all told,
there are about 14 different disciplines and they thought you could
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 14
a do it or they would not have asked you.
, 9UESTION $9, VHS (0-30-48) COULD YOU TELL ME A LITTLE SOMETHING
ABOUT HOW THIS SCHOOL OF EDUCATION GOT STARTED?
ANSWER : Yes. It began, now I'm trying'to recollect. The stroke
that I had was right-brain damage which means that the perceptual
feel, the left side is paralyzed and the perceptual, but the
conceptual is still fine. The only thing that was affected the
second time was speech and swallowing so-that's my punishment as we
would say, temple punishment and I'm catching mine now. Graduate
School began in '49 with a few courses and when we graduated our
first class of undergrad in '51, we even had a few Master's Degree
candidates. Father McPeake, Father Coughlin and ... were ...
initiated and they were great men. Dr. Maurice Rawlin came from New
1
York City and when he died he was in his eighties, but he was as
strong as any 20-year-old who came in. He lectured without notes and
he made sense so they were very strong and then Tom Quirk from
Hartford -- a high school principal. Dr. Quirk taught courses in
Administration. That was a very successful program. We have a lot
to say about Education, that is, the
education coursesm in Jesuit institutions. Jesuits did not, and
do not, favor School of Education. This was the complaint from the
other colleges. I attended -a couple -of the meetings of the Jesuit
Education Association and the professors, Jesuits and laity alike,
were complaining about the treatment. This was kind of a stepchild
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 15
here, yet it was a big moneymaker here at Fairfield. We graduated
oh, darn when I left, I think, we had processed in grad degrees about
16,000 students, so economically it was a bonanza, but it was always
looked down upon by most of the Jesuits,. Laity stepped in, they had
all professionals, school superintendents would be teaching courses
and Father McPeake who became a very close friend of ours and a
friend of ours until the day he died, was very strong in the field,
took his Doctorate in N.Y.U. He was a late vocation in the Jesuit
order and he and Father Coughlin were novices together, I think in
Shadow Brook. Father, again, carried on the Jesuit tradition while
Father McPeake was in charge. While Father Coughlin was in charge,
the program went along well. When the laity came in, they did not
seem to have the spirit because in the Graduate School, you could not
capture this undergraduate spirit. Then you had, of course, a
different student body. They did not stay on campus. There was no
housing for them, so all Graduate Students -- there was no housing
for its Graduate Students.
PUESTION 410, VHS #1 (0-34-45)- COULD YOU TELL ME A LITTLE BIT MORE
ABOUT FATHER MCPEAKE?
ANSWER: Father McPeake. I wish I had the exact dates and data.
Father McPeake took care of his friends. He was a public school
administrator in Massachusetts, took care of his parents until
they died and he entered the Jesuit order quite late as also did
Father Coughlin. Father McPeake was a very deliberate person, but a
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 16
very gentle soul. A l o t of humorous s t o r i e s t h a t we can tell about
the good Padre. W e would go t o conventions together and t h a t was in
Spring and most of the t i m e the conventions w e r e held in Chicago and
on one occasion he and Bob P i t t s , Dr. P i t t who was the Dean a t the
t i m e , he and Bob had preceded me t o -a hotel in Chicago and I had t o
f l y out t o Wooster, Kansas and was delayed, came i n very l a t e one
morning and they were having breakfast. I s a t down and ordered
breakfast, bacon, eggs, sausage, r e a l l y I glutted myself and forget
it was Good Friday. Father McPeake said--nothing. After breakfast as
we were walking back, Father said t o me, "Did you enjoy your
breakfast?" Never a reprimand. This is one thing t h a t I w i l l say
for Father McPeake. He never reprimanded anyone. He would always
say collectively, "We have a problemw and you knew you w e r e the
c u l p r i t , but he would never point t o any individual or reprimand. He
would say "We have a problem." Father also would patrol the
corridors t o make sure t h a t you s t a r t e d your classes on t i m e and I
can remember one occasion teaching History of Education. I came t o
the section of t h e J e s u i t s in Education and said t o my class "They
w e r e founded on a m i l i t a r i s t i c hierarchy." Father was outside the
door and he stepped in and said "You presented it correctly and the
hierarchy." Another t i m e when we w e r e in Chicago, t o show the human
side, Father was a very s p i r i t u a l being. I mean, he was holiness
himself. He was f a n t a s t i c . A t the same t i m e , he enjoyed good
theater and enjoyed good music and enjoyed an
outing. W e had a custom of going out on May lst, which was the
Oral History: Chester Stua.rt Page 17
,
date of his birthday and mine and on a couple of occasions, we went
to New York to see a play and it was a rather on the what should we
say, restricted side. Father would say, "My, my." That's all he
would say is "My, my." But we were in Chicago on one occasion and
Father said, IIWelre going out on the-town tonight, where are we
eating?" So, Bob Pitt and I selected an Italian restaurant and we
got there and Father said, "I'm going in mufty." He said, "1 don't
want to have people see me drinking and so forth." So Father came
out, we met him in the lobby of the hotex,- He was dressed all in
black, but he had a turtleneck white shirt and when we got there and
sat down and began to order, the waitress approached him and said
"Whatlll you have, Father?" But, Father also recognized ... one
little story I have to tell. You know students can be gold brickers
and we had at the end of your Master's Program, you had to take an
oral examination and you had to write a final seminar paper. Well,
this one young lady had completed all her work, but did not take the
oral exam and we received calls from her father. The girl was ill
and so forth and he said that any way she could present a paper to
make up for, so Father and I had a conference and Father said, ''This
man really seems to me to be genuine. What do you think we should
do?" So the two of us voted that she should be given the option of
writing a paper and before she even completed it, she knew ... she
died of Cancer, so she was really ill. So, Father really understood
problems and always made sure the people...he practiced justice as we
called it. This is the kind
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 18
a of person. There are ,other stories. For instance, Father Duffy.
Father Duffy dropped in for a visit the other day and we served him
lunch but when Father was in charge of the Bookstore and finally they
freed him of his job and he became an Administrator, Father came to
me about a year later and said "In going.over my books, I see that
you never paid for a notebook that you owed and that was .$78." ...
mentality! And another time when he visited, we had just installed a
pool table in our basement and I said to Father, "Would you like to
shoot some pool?" "No," he said, "We do-a little of that in the
Seminary." So he went down, my wife, Barbara heard him chuckling,
she came down the stairs and ... shooting pool from the back.
Anything the Jesuits do, they do with perfection and if, at any time,
there's a problem or there is a delay or hesitation, they do not want
to be losers. There is an elitism about them and they will not be
headed in cutting out a program, long be a failure or it does not fit
into their scheme, just as School of Communications was cut out, so
they were ... that is why they always looked askance at the School of
Education. I don't know how long it will survive here, of course,
it's been long enough to be a tradition since '49. That's all.
QUESTION VHS j0-42-04] HOW WOULD YOU COMPARE FATHER
MCPETE'S PERSONALITY TO DR. ROGALIN? I MEAN, THEY WORKED ON THE
SCHOOL TOGETHER, CORRECT?
ANSWER: . They were both mild-mannered men. They got along
perfectly and that's what made the school a success because both of
them agreed on fundamentals. Dr. ~ogalin was a convert to
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 19
Catholicism and he began the School of Education at Fordham
University and he was a
deeply religious man. In fact, when he died, he dropped dead, he
was saying the Rosary, so he, right to the end, was a very prayerful
man and one very much concerned about the justice of this school, so
I would say that both of them worked together beautiful. There was
never any unharmonious.re1ationship on the faculty., Very rarely did
anyone kick up his heels and said "We can take advantage of them."
The Jesuits would balk at anyone who tried to pre-empt their
ob j ectives .
9UESTION $12, VHS #1 (0-43-321 HOW DID THE SCHOOL OF EDUCATION
ATTRACT STUDENTS AS IT BEGAN? DID YOU GO OUT INTO THE COMMUNITY?
ANSWER: This was by word of mouth believe it or not. They did so
little advertising that we were almost annoyed. You may get a small
article in the local paper, but it was by word of mouth and
geographically, we were accessible and we gave them something that
they wanted and one of the things was the Philosophy, believe it or
not. I t was a required course. They had to take a required course
in Philosophy of Education, either historically, either Philosophical
Foundations, Comparative Philosophy or a course in Ethics or
Philosophical Psych and many of them enjoyed Father Coughlinls
Philosophical Psychology. Anyone who had a Jesuit in class -- these
people fathered satisfactorily, so they found the atmosphere just
what they needed and after teaching all day, they wanted to come in
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 20
and get substance and the faculty was f u l l y prepared and t h a t then,
we had a few J e s u i t s on the s t a f f , so Father McPete and Father
Coughlin and then, of course, Father McGrath. And Father McGrath,
j u s t by h i s teaching methods, h i s knowledge of Psychology, he was
j u s t a fabulous teacher, so I
think it was a l s o t h e idea of being a J e s u i t i n s t i t u t i o n .
Oral History: Chestqr Stuart Page. 2 l
QUESTION $13. VHS ~ (0-45-16) WHAT AN IMPACT THE SCHOOL OF
EDUCATION HAD ON TEACHERS ALL ACROSS THE STATE BECAUSE THERE WERE SO
MANY OF THEM --EDUCATED HERE?
ANSWER : We also, there were many in Administration who were
graduates of our Graduate School and their performance and they did
get a very good background, so their Master's Degree here was earned
the hard way and they are all...one of early benefactors was a woman
who received her Master's and later on died, was the first to leave
funds for the University and it was for the Graduate School of
Education.
9UESTION #14, VHS (0-46-04) HOW MANY YEARS DID YOU TEACH IN THE
GRADUATE SCHOOL?
ANSWER: I taught 20 Undergraduate and 19 in the Graduate School.
QUESTION 3 14 (CTN. 1 HOW WOULD YOU EVALUATE THE GRADUATE SCHOOL OF
EDUCATION TODAY? WHAT IS YOUR FEELING ABOUT IT TODAY?
ANSWER: Well, this again, you do not have, I don't know the reason
for it, perhaps it was our fault as we moved along, I don't know. I
wish we could cut this off because it would get very personal.
QUESTION 4 14, (CTN). I MEAN NOBODY HAS TO SEE THIS.
ANSWER: All right. So very rarely that you get a Jesuit who is
offensive. We had one who was creating disturbance for years and we
always wondered why don't the ~esuits send him to a happier spot, so
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 22
a I would say, by comparison, the early graduate students were treated
in a professional way. I think the new Dean is going to be a good
man, but you have also who do not understand the spirit of the
Jesuits, so it's a purely professional institution now, where before
you did have the philosophy and ideology of the Jesuits. Today, that
is missing and only rarely
they would have a Jesuit teaching a course. Father McGrath was
fantastic as a speaker. I mean, this man was really wonderful. I
taught at the American Institute of Banking as well -- my
moonlighting project and Father went into the Banking Group and it
was through his instrumentality, this complex on campus and dedicated
to Banking and fostering -- he is the one who has --the many
stories...I don't know if you ever heard the one I'll tell it; it's
on T.V. Father told a story about a mother who came to her
Psychologist, or rather, Psychiatrist who said "1 have two sons who
are bummers. You know that they are so annoying they are using
profanity that you never heard of in your life." And this is
Father's story. "So, what do you think I can do?" He said, I1Well,
deal with them gently, beg, plead, and cajole." And she said, "I've
done that and it doesn't work.'' So he said ''the next time one of
them opens his mouth with a foul word, you just smash him across the
mouth." She said, "Oh I can't do that." He said, "You tried
everything else, why not a little violent." So, one morning as the
first son came down the stairs to the kitchen and the mother said,
"Honey, what do you want for breakfast?" And the kid said, "1 want
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 23
a some of the Goddamn cornflakes." So she whacked him across the lip
and laid him out cold. Second son was coming down and saw that and
she said, "And you, honey, what would like for breakfast?" And the
kid said, "Why, you can bet your ass it won't be the Goddamn
cornflakes." Father, you know, a lusty story. He was a wonderful
teacher. One course I recommended to any student who I processed as
an advisor is Father McGrath's course. My wife
also...I met as a Graduate Student and saw quality. That was one
of the last courses that she took and she said TJnf~rgettable.~~
QUESTION $15, VHS (0-50-021 LET ME JUST TAKE YOU BACK A LITTLE
BIT. DO YOU REMEMBER FATHER DOLAN WHO WAS HERE WHEN YOU WERE HERE?
ANSWER : Oh yes, I have a good little story. Father Dolan was, I
@ wish we had our picture here. 1951 yearbook. If YOU have a chance,
get it. It is beautiful, but just as he stands there with his wide
Roman collar, serious, he was very serious and again, he demanded of
everyone, perfection, but never, as I said, you were never threatened
by him. But he was a good person to work with...all in the old
classical tradition. The one story I do want to tell you...one of
the Fathers, I don't recall which one mentioned that Father Dolan was
at the retirement home in Boston for the Jesuits and he was really in
bad shape and on one occasion, Father was a holy man, straight-laced.
He would stick his own oil tank, he knew where everything was, every
minute. If a Jesuit wanted to use a car, you had to sign in, sign
out and check your mileage, so he went just by the rule, but when he
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 24
was very ill and he had his moments of senility, he said to one of
the Scholastics who was waiting on him, he said, "Frater, what you
need is in your life, is a good woman." Father was a good leader,
straight-laced, but everyone expected it, just as we liked to see the
Jesuits... and . I mean, that seemed to be our image
of what a Jesuit would look like. As the changes came in, the new
Jesuits, again, are Jesuits. As I'm thinking now who gave the
Commencement, the Valedictory address in 1970, Father Harrick, Simon
Harrick was his father, he was the one who ran the
Glee Club and Simon Harrick was a wonderful human being, died
fairly young. Glee Club made a fantastic impact. This is another
method, let us say, of putting Fairfield into the limelight. These
men sang and they sang beautifully. It goes with an all-male
situation, but Father Harrick grew up, at 18 he had. just graduated
and was going to a Novitiate when his father died, became a Jesuit
and he is going to be one of our outstanding Jesuits. I hope he
stays on campus, so the new breed, the younger people, have brought
with them the spirit of the Order which they got from the Novitiate
on, but they also are updated and they are all very knowledgeable.
You know, if you go back again in your history of the Jesuits...Igll
give you the two in your history of the Jesuits you will find
that St. Ignatius and the early Jesuits, they were ordained in 1537
and the reason that I remember that I looked at it this morning. I
usually tell the students the reason we remember the dates is it's
part of the contract, but these men got their Master's Degree,
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 25
Education for the Priesthood, the Priests in the 16th Century were
not very knowledgeable people and these men from the beginning, St.
Ignatius demanded of himself, learned Latin late in life and the
early fathers got their advanced degrees, not just their Bachelorls,
F
but their Master's Degree, so that the order was an elitist order,
academically, right from the beginning ... how very important to know
that because that is why they prized people who had intellectual
prowess. I mean, they won't allow any kind of expression that is
positive in nature and not .... anything in the Catholic Church, but
the early contract
was modified in later years, but you could be relieved of your
teaching position here if you, in any way, spoke against the
teachings of the Catholic Church and as you know, you probably have
heard it from others, there's a story. Man fled as a Lutheran
Minister who was taking courses at the Free University in Berlin and
he met his first Jesuit there during the Post-War Period, later on he
wrote this book, The Jesuits -- The History and Legend of the Society
of Jesus and one of the little stories told there, the lines were
picked up by Jesuit, they were taught here on campus recently. The
lines were "You may find almost any kind of a Jesuit, including an
Atheist, but you'd never find one who's humblew and that, of course,
was first uttered by the Encyclopedist ... role in the early 18th
Century.
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 26
QUESTION $16, VHS #1 J0-56-14) IN THE EARLY DAYS, I GUESS WHEN
FATHER DOLAN WAS HERE, THEY HAD SOME EARLY FUND RAISING DRIVES. I
REMEMBER SEEING A PICTURE OF HIM WITH A FAMOUS "BUY A BRICK."
ANSWER: Yea. The fund drive. We had benefactors...were hard to
come by. It's only in recent years. We haven't even started talking
about Father Kelley, but we'll save this for a little later if I
survive that long. But, the 'Dollar a Brick1 and that was for Xavier
Hall, for this building, it was very successful. Any fund drive they
had, it was always a modest thing. Father Kelley opened the door
even wider to the community and his last report; we're members of the
President's Circle and in the report to the members of the
President's Circle, he pointed to the success of the most recent
drive so we had a, they picked up $38 million and there are still
those who have not fulfilled their pledge. They
have gone to $45 million and this was only in a couple of years,
so I would say that is one index of the success of Fairfield
University because the parents, in addition to the Alumni, were now
giving heavily. The parents of the students who were on campus, even
now, donated ... they were, I think the second highest in donations to
several of the corporate offices so that means that the parents are
satisfied with what's happening to their students. The Alumni are
giving because they are satisfied with what they got here.' They are
prepared for many things. My own doctor is an Alumnus of Fairfield,
Oral History: Chester Stuart Sage 27
you know, good grades, I checked that before he worked on me and Dr.
Levine who operated on me for a gall bladder, I asked him before when
he first interviewed me, "Were you satisfied with your grade?'' He
said, "Yes." Well, I let him do it, but these people are beginning
to give, even some of the reluctant ones who feel as though we don't
give enough Philosophy and Theology on campus, even these people are
given, but they had to see ... today's Liberal Arts and today's
Humanities, anything that humanizes and anything that's going to lead
you to Ignatiusl basic goals ... purpose and life to be a
. So, I'd say that Father is successful. One last meeting
that I had with him a couple of years ago before my second stroke, I
said that I would continue to be on the President's Circle as long as
he stays here as President and I hope we don't lose him. He has
reached everybody and stories about him. I told him this story.
This is still a Jesuit institution. So when people say "What is a
Jesuit institution?" "It is an institution run by the Jesuits. They
have to be in
control." That doesn't mean you cannot have laity for in
Wheeling, West Virginia you will find the college there, the
President a woman and a Protestant, at that. A story they tell about
Father Kelley that if you don't do things his way, now he does it all
with a whip, he's a gentle, don't do things his way, he's going to
take his ball and bat and go home, so he chuckled over that.
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 28
9UESTION #17, VHS #1 (1-00-34) FATHER DOLAN, WHEN HE LEFT, HE WAS
SUCCEEDED BY FATHER JOSEPH FITZGERALD WHO WAS REALLY THE FIRST
FITZGERALD.
ANSWER: My infusion arises when we had a series of Fitzgeralds.
They were all good, up until the last one, the Silver Fox, became
President of St. Louis University and at the dinner just before
Commencement on June 9, when he left here, we asked him Why did you
become an Administrator?" He said, "1 wanted the challengew so he
was instrumental in bringing up the School of Nursing and he was
conservative in buying the property from the Nuns, the Sisters of
Notre Dame: the others are a molten (sp.), so that was the only area
in which he was too conservative. He could have picked up the
property at the time for a song and it cost him several million now
that they waited, but the judgment was a good one.
QUESTION $18, VHS #1 (1-01-42) WHAT KIND OF AN ADMINISTRATOR WAS
HE?
ANSWER: Oh he was good. He, again, was behind the scenes, but
'have it my way1. He was very careful, very cautious; all of them
were good. I mean there was no weakness in any single one of these
people. One of the Father Fitzgeralds was a Provincial Prefect of
Study and he, ultimately, became the Rector here, but is one
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 29
i
of the people who would evaluate your classwork; he was always on
time. At one time, I was teaching in the Advanced German, William
Tell, Schiller's William Tell, and when he came in, one year, we just
had William Tell crossing Lake Lucerne in the storm to get away from
Gessler. Second year he came in, William Tell was crossing Lake
Lucerne in the storm and it was almost the same page because I had
taught it systematically as they did systematically, so after class
he said "Tell me, did he ever get across?^^ All of the administrators
were...Father McInnes, one of my favorites because he raised our
I
salaries and took into consideration. He also was a hero of the time
of the Vietnam rebels, so that was a time.
QUESTION $19, VHS #1 (1-03-33) DO YOU RECALL THAT PERIOD AT ALL?
ANSWER: Oh, yes. We also had an influx of new faculty members.
The Jesuits went out looking for all Ph.D.!s. -- these young ones.
Many of them were immature. My ... there was really no great shakes.
It was a very short disturbance. I think we were locked out for
about two days; some people got excited about it, but Father
weathered the storm. He took a lot of brick baths, but I think he
did...in fact, I recommended him for one of the medals that are given
because I think that I did so much by bringing in the community and
from his period and on to the present time, the doors opened more and
did open them wide.
PUESTION $20, VHS #1 (1-04-301 HOW DID HE DO THAT AGAIN?
ANSWER: Again, they respected him. See, these men are all, first
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 30
a of all, they're highly intelligent people, and Fairfield County and
Fairfield community is an eliticist community -- the Gold Coast
wants people who can express themselves and tell them what's
right, why they are doing, so they communicated, so this is the whole
thing. It was the communicating. I remember on one occasion he gave
a service, he was, he presided at a service at the Park Avenue Temple
so we had many Jewish people who began to like the University and the
backing of the Jewish community is important in the field of Art and
in the field of Performance and Theater. I mean, these are wealthier
people and the ones who can help and do subsidize programs on a
cultural level. They loved him for his intelligence and for being so
outgoing..
QUESTION 4 21, VHS #1 (1-05-41) I GUESS HE WORKED CLOSELY WITH
FATHER COUGHLIN DURING THAT WHOLE PERIOD.
ANSWER : Oh, yes. As I said earlier in the tape, at no time was
there any antagonism among the Jesuits. They all went in one
direction. There may have been a difference of opinion, but they
would think about a project, come back to us, evaluate it again and
again.
9UESTION #22, VHS fill-06-09] DID YOU WORK CLOSELY WITH FATHER
COUGHLIN?
ANSWER: Father Coughlin was my Dean and Father Coughlin, if you
haven't interviewed him, you probably will; he is a personality. I
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 31
think that you will be startled when you meet him. He, right now, is
not in a real mobility. He has an electric cart. Hens throwing a
big party on Sunday and he invited some 50 of the people who worked
with him when he was a Dean, so that's going to be my second visit to
the University, down to what he lovingly calls Swamp House, St.
Ignatius House. He, again, one little story about him. Remember
when I gave him, when I was getting ready to work at the Graduate
School full time. I still worked, on
occasion., at the Undergraduate courses as a need would arise, but
I said on the occasion of transferring to the Graduate School, "1
guess I've done a good jobw and nobody has ever complained and so I
was doing a little bragging, getting some of their humility and
Father Coughlin said to me, "Chet, you have helped the University
tremendously. We work best under a handicap." So that was his
evaluation. Yet, he was a man with heart. I did not receive a full
Professorship.when two other of the laymen, Carmen and Art Riel
received a full Professorship. I can say it on tape and you'll erase
it, but Father Leeber, at that time, was the Chairman and he said the
reason I did not recommend you is llYoulreno t loyal to the
Universityw because I was still moonlighting. Father Coughlin called
me in and gave me a bonus and he felt that I probably deserved but to
kind of ameliorate conditions, he gave me a salary along with $2000
which was again a very wealthy thing. I gave it back to them after
my first wife died. I had no need for money and decided that I was
in the President's Circle. Father is Billy Goat Grouch, but, at the
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 32
same time, he is a tremendous personality. He did not want to become
University President, he was offered to him, but he did not feel as
though he would like to do that kind of work.
QUESTION $22, VHS #1 (1-08-581 WHAT WAS HIS IMPACT ON THE SCHOOL
OF EDUCATION?
ANSWER: Oh, it was strong because, again, he made sure that we
followed state regulations. The State of Connecticut in certifying
people, first of all your certification has to be approved by the
University and the State automatically accepts that. Same with
Administration and the same with guides to Certificates and
Guidance and Psychological. He demanded, again, that we obey the
'letter of the law', that you don't try to finagle or take short-cuts,
so all the Jesuits, again, were perfectionists. What was right
and the demands of society that were appropriate for the institution.
He, again, was an educated, scholarly Jesuit, fantastic in
Philosophy.
QUESTION $23, VHS (1-10-021 DID YOU KNOW FATHER MAHAN PRETTY
WELL?
ANSWER: Oh yes, Father Mahan, the 'memory man'. He remembered the
name of every single student and faculty member. I worked with him
on the Committee of Admissions and again, a little story comes to
mind. Father Mahan, on one occasion, called a meeting of the
Admissions Committee. They have a totally different arrangement now.
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 33
In those days, it was easy. You took the school grades and
recommendation and I.Q., the College Boards. On one occasion, he
said "We have a young man who is asking for Admission. His grades
are terrible and he wants Pre-Med." You know Don Ross, our most
successful program is our Pre-Med program. We talked about it and
finally we wanted to know why it was so important and he said very
frankly, "One of his uncles is a fund raiser for Shadowbrook, the
Novitiate, and he has raised over a million dollarsw, so we said, IIBy
all means, give him a chance, but not for Pre-Med." So, he came in,
he flunked out in the first semester, but again, Father was a
compassionate person. I was having a bit of difficulty with my son
who, ultimately, went to Vietnam and came back a disaster, but Father
Mahan would help you with your personal problems so you could erase
them and work the way you were supposed to be doing. He did not want
personalities
to enter into your teaching and your personal problems belong
outside, but here again, he was remarkable for his memory. He was
also remarkable for dealing with people. He could communicate and he
was low-key. His voice was always low modular and here, again, every
administrator we have had, oh you can erase all of the beautiful
comments. I was reading the other day in the American Magazine,
Father George Hunt was the editor and in his column of many things,
he was talking about the good news and just as here at Fairfield was
spreading the good news of our Fifth Year Achievement, but then he
pointed out you know, the good news of the scriptures in the Bible
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 34
a had its problems, the good news was not always miracles, not always
progress, you had some bummers. St. Peter denied Christ, John and
James were arguing about which one would sit on either side of him on
the throne, you had judas to betray, you had Thomas who was a
'doubting Thomas', so I would say also we have to point to some of
the minor things. It doesn't deter from the progress of the
University, as such. What other unanswered problems do you have?
9UESTION $24, VHS fi (1-13-45) WERE YOU INVOLVED AT ALL IN
BRINGING FAIRFIELD INTO THE GREATER COMMUNITY? DID YOU SPEAK AT
VARIOUS FUNCTIONS OR TRY TO MAKE FAIRFIELD BETTER KNOWN IN HIGH
SCHOOLS?
ANSWER: I had, I don't know if I brought it with me, but I gave a very many lectures to P.T.A. groups and I also was on the program at
Fairfield University Interprets News. That was a weekly program. I
did that for about 5 years and I talked to hundreds of groups of
parents and P.T.Ats throughout the State of Connecticut.
9UESTION $25, VHS fi (1-14-30) THAT WAS AS PART OF FAIRFIELD
UNIVERSITY INTERPRETS THE NEWS OR WAS THAT A RADIO SHOW?
ANSWER: That was part of Fairfield. Faculty members would join,
but when everybody was busy, some of us were on much more often
because we had a little more energy, I guess, but we got very good
press. My wife, when I was up for a Distinguished Service Award for
the Faculty went to the Bridgeport Post and made a collection of the
many times there were news notices so we got good press, had
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 35
excellent relationship with the Bridgeport Post; yes, I did
considerably lecturing, not about the University, but as a member of
the University and of course, that, again, is good public relations
because we didn't always get a fee.
QUESTION $26, VHS #1 (1-15-301 WAS THE RADIO PROGRAM, DID THAT
ORIGINATE HERE RIGHT AT THE UNIVERSITY?
ANSWER: We had to go, where was it, WNAB, at the time and WICC, so
we would tape the program at the studios in Bridgeport. I remember
one bit of humility for myself. William Buckley, as a Graduate, or
as a Graduate of Yale at the time, had just written his book God and
Man at Yale and they wanted someone from the University to be on
panel to discuss his book. Everyone backed down. Father Crowley and
I, I think this man was a brilliant, William Buckley was brilliant as
an Undergraduate, he would surpass almost anybody today, even on his
level at that time...
QUESTION $27, VHS #1 (1-16-391 HOW DID YOU DETERMINE FOR THE RADIO
SHOW WHAT YOU ALL WERE GOING TO TALK ABOUT?
ANSWER: We would select the news or the headline of the day. On
occasion, we had McCarthyism and that would be like one of the
topics. Another time, juvenile delinquency -- that's always a topic
and was in those days, so we would take the headlines of the week and
would deal with them, so whoever felt they were Knowledgeable in that
area. . .
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 36
9UESTION #28, VHS (1-17-121 CARMEN WAS ON THE SHOW WITH YOU,
WASN'T HE?
ANSWER: Yes. Oh, Carmen and I worked a great deal on the
Grapefruit Circuit. He would recommend these people need a speaker
and so forth. Carmen had done a great deal for it and very enjoyable
and of course, it was a benefit to the University because that, once
again, was giving of ourselves.
QUESTION #30, VHS (1-17-421 YOU WERE TALKING JUST BEFORE WE
a BEGAN THE INTERVIEW --THE G.E. COLLEGE BOWL. I WAS WONDERING IF YOU
COULD TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT -- WHAT IMPACT IT HAD ON THE
UNIVERSITY?
ANSWER: Well, again, I wish I could tell you every detail. Other
than the kids were knowledgeable. The courses they were taking here
certainly gave them all the aperceptive mass that they needed; you
have to have knowledge to think, you have to think about something
and that something means you have to have a vast store of
facts...those questions you ask are all sense memory and you have to
regurgitate, so as part of your courses here at Fairfield, you did a
lot of memory work. Carmen's course was a
very rich one and helped these people because he was teaching
a History and of course, factual information, and he was a tough
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 37
teacher. If you didn't do well, you didn't do well and he'd flunk
you without batting an eye, but they got to know him and they worked
awfully hard, so they had that vast storehouse of knowledge. See, in
the learning theories, there are three groups. You can find this in
B. and Hunt Psychological Foundations of Education. Learning Theory,
you have your mental discipline association and cognitive field. The
Mental Discipline Theory states that there are faculties of the mind
that can be honed by certain subjects and these sensation,
perception, association, imagination, attention and intellect and
unintellect ... so they felt that certain subjects would do that.
Well, it's very important in that discipline to accumulate a vast
amount of facts, so our students did that. We demanded of them a
great deal of memory work. In English, all my students had to learn
and recite the Hound of Heaven and that was an early tradition here -
- so many, many lines and in German, my students, sometimes I would
meet them, even now, many years later and they are still able to
recite some of the poetry that I demanded that they learn. I thought
of one humorous thing'-- Dr. Robert Taylor, a Black Dentist, one of
our earlier students, handsome fellow, you'd talk about 'thee' and
ethnic slurs on campus, we never had those problems. They'd make a
comment if you had a bunch of Irish Jesuits from Boston who were as
bigoted as anyone; they were almost automatically reactive to a
situation from the point of view what Bostonian Irishness meant. And
Dr.
Robert Taylor, as a Freshman, during registration, was standing
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 38
in line, announced himself as he came to our desk "My name is Robert
Taylor and I'm not the movie star." So, he had a sense of humor.
Everyone took it the same way. Robert Taylor memorized for me some
40 lines from Schiller's Dos Elide, The Song of the Bell. Thirty
years later, during a reunion here on campus, he gathered around, and
many of his classmates, and called me over and said "1 want to recite
something for you." He went through, I would say, at least 40 lines
of The Song of the Bell in German and I asked him Why do you
remember this?" "1 learned it by heart because you said we would get
it in an examination. I want you to know that I learned it and that
time you didn't give it to us, you lied." But they did do a great
deal of memory work, so that is why a lot of people objected to it,
but how can you analyze, how can you synthesize unless you have your • aperceptive mass? You can't do it without a knowledge of fact.
QUESTION $31, VHS #1 (1-22-491 LET'S GO BACK TO THE G.E. COLLEGE
BOWL FOR A SECOND? DID IT COME AS A SURPRISE WHEN FAIRFIELD WON?
ANSWER: No. Not to us because every Jesuit institution had the
same procedure and we knew our boys could compete and when they were
invited to the program and again, everything was done with Jesuit
approval and there was complete approval that these people would do
well. So, right from the beginning, you had...in the first class, we
had 315 students. At the end of four years, 80 of them had been
eliminated and the new ones, you had to perform and I get a kick out
of it because in the yearbook, they list the names of all those who
a were former classmates, in other words, flunked
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 39
out. You had to perform. There was no doubt and the youngsters
were prepared. They also have done very well. Again, the head of
Burger King ... he's now head of General Foods was a former student of
ours; he was a Psych major and, as I said, some are College
Presidents, and many, many are in the field of Education who were at
our Undergraduate program, so...
QUESTION $32. VHS (1-24-23) YOU TALKED EARLIER ABOUT THE
'SILVER FOX', FATHER FITZGERALD. DURING THE PERIOD HE WAS HERE, I
GUESS THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR LAW SCHOOL TO COME TO FAIRFIELD.
DO YOU THINK THAT THE UNIVERSITY MADE THE RIGHT DECISION?
ANSWER: Oh, I think they made the right decision. The Jesuits
a have a total plan for the University. You may have seen the original
map. And they had in this-plan. They made the right decision
because the Jesuits did not want to be losers. They want any program
they be 'in has to be approached carefully and taken care of. That
brings us to some of the other programs, like we had the School of
Communications -- nobody knows...Father Burke was a good man. He
headed it, but we all believed it was financed by the C.I.A., so
somehow it did not fit into our plans here and gradually was
eliminated, although there's a very strong ... that's why, also,
Fairfield refused to take over U.B. -- the expense would have been
prohibited.
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 40
QUESTION $33. VHS #1 11-25-41) LET ME JUST GO BACK TO THE SCHOOL
OF COMMUNICATIONS FOR A MINUTE. WHY DID YOU THINK THAT WAS FINANCED
BY THE c.I.A.?.
ANSWER: That was the rumor. I told you we talked about history
and legend. That's one of the legends, but there are many of those
who agree because it came sudden and there was no preview.
Usually when we started a new venture, this was brought up
publicly in the Faculty Meeting and discussed. School of
Communication hadn't and therefore, we had no foreknowledge or they
kept it of this meeting.
PUESTION $34, VHS #1 (1-26-20) THE FACULTY, DO YOU RECALL IN THE
'60's BEING IN THE FACULTY MEETINGS, DISCUSSING ALL THE CHANGES THAT
WERE GOING ON IN THE UNIVERSITY IN THOSE DAYS, THE NEW BOARD OF
TRUSTEES, ALL THE BUILDING THAT WAS HAPPENING AND SO FORTH?
ANSWER : We were informed of and there was no real strong lay
participation in any of these things. This was done by the
hierarchy. The Jesuits removed all the crucifixes from inside the
buildings as soon as we got our government loan; in other words, they
had to do that. Sacred Heart University could not even use its
library for .purposes of teaching Theology because they still had
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 41
money that had been granted them for the building. No, we did not
participate. The only one who came in and ultimately did involve
himself in funding was John Barone and John Barone did wonders; he's
a Phi Beta Kappa and he should have stayed in Chemistry. The
students who had him, my own Dr. ~ a k eis -keeping me alive, had a
fantastic knowledge of medication and when I had my stroke and you
had different swellings, you know, he was able, with knowledge of
Chemistry, to develop a program for me, and he said he owes it all to
John Barone, so they loved him as a teacher. He also was a man of
compassion. I had a Eucharistic minister who brought communion to my
bed a couple of months ago and he told me the story of how John,
hard, hard as he was supposed to be, gave him a chance to re-take a
final
examination because he had been out celebrating his brother's
receipt of an M.D., I guess, but John allowed him to re-take his
exam. John became the best contact we had at raising funds. He did
wonders. Sometime, to our chagr.in, because he attempted at times to
get faculty members to retire at 65. I, at that time, could not
1
afford. My extra five years gave me a Social Security which, with
the pension, almost equals my final salary leaving the University, so
John was cutting on us for the laity. The reason you do not have any
outstanding lay faculty scholars, publications and all, these men
could not afford to do the additional work and take Sabbaticals, so
one of the programs Father Kelley has is to help increase the
endowment for faculty research that's needed; needed also is
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 42
endowment for visiting Jesuits because they are the ones who bring us
a great deal of the past and also to evaluate current problems.
Oral History: Chester Stuart Page 43
Father Kelley, of course, has helped us prosper financially beyond
belief. You have statistics. I think they are available. They're
incredible, what he? s done in ten years, so financially, a fantastic
impact. Also, socially because he communicates well with the
business world and he has convinced them of the need of support and
that we merit and as I said earlier in the program, the reason for
the success of his campaign was the fact that the people recognized
that the money has been used well and wisely. That is why bringing
in a Law School would have depleted funds and the super force (??)
was tied to his money and not by the Sisters of Notre Dame property.
That also would have depleted the coffers. I think they had only $30
million in reserve, so Father does very well. He shows himself as a
a Jesuit. He's a great speaker. He's highly articulate. There also
are a few funny speakers. Father asked me what I'm doing and during
my illness, did a great deal of reading and I read a great deal of
Theology and I like Carl Reiner and I've been reading his Sacrament
for-the fourth time, so Father asked me "Are you reading it in German
or translation?" He wanted to make sure I was continuing to be
scholarly. Father went to Germany on one occasion and he wanted to
practice his German. I said, "~verything they do, they do well."
Well to bring up a little think like a beer, Lowenbrau, Father went
into one of these German restaurants and in ordering beer
(German. . . . ) because
Oral History: Chester Stuart page 44
that's how it's spelled, the "ow has an ohmlaw around it and 'a1 with
Id1 and 'a1 ohmlaw and he said, "....(German request for
beer)" and the waiter hollers out "One bottle of Lowenbrauw. So,
Father tells little stories about himself. Very human being.
9UESTION $36, VHS 11-32-01] DURING THE, I MEAN, YOU WERE HERE
FROM THE BEGINNING, FROM 1947. HOW HAS THE UNIVERSITY CHANGED FROM
YOUR POINT OF VIEW? IS THE DIRECTION THE SAME AS IT WAS 45 YEARS
AGO, DO YOU THINK?
ANSWER : I would say they are tending more towards the field of
Professionalism. In the beginning and I could give you an exact
quotation. Can I use my notes? We were handed a copy of the ...
and they were clear, concerning subject matter, so-called Pre-
Professional Courses should be considered as tolerant rather than
favor and not be allowed to become a narrow ad hoc professional
preparation. The emphasis on liberal education must, at all cost, be
maintained. They had to cut it out ... the sheer need. Our students
going to Med School and to Graduate School had to compete with
secular institutions that were absolutely professional, so that meant
we had to drop courses...so very slowly we had to drop courses. And
they dropped many of the so-called Liberal Arts and Theology and
Philosophy. Those were discussed (rustling of paper -- very noisy).
Hierarchy of subjects. We're talking about this change -- this
Oral History: Chester Stuart page 45
academic change from a rigid classical education to a progress of
progression to professionalism. Before the study of language and
literature, philosophy, religion contributes most to the cultivation
of the specifically human powers, these subjects have always been and
should continue to be constant Jesuit. We were ... they said we didn't
have to, but these were guidelines, but they were deliberate ...
subjects of modern development
should not be allowed to displace or minimize the conditional
disciplines and should not be admitted to the curriculum unless they
fill a critical need of the times viewed from our Philosophy of
Education. We are now into computer, massive financial computer as
far away from this classical ... called for. But it stilled required
a intelligent people and I think that the student body pulled together
enough of a background, although they would be missing some of the
Jesuit top classes. Some now...once having met a Jesuit in a
classroom situation, but they still had them in evidence. They had
them in the dormitories as Prefects, they had them at any time for
consultation, but you see, the Jesuits are flexible and they have
allowed this progression. As a Holy Cross Administrator said in one
of the articles that I will give you, "Holy Cross does not have to go
where somebody wants them to because they continue to have
applications far and beyond what they need and Father Kelley has
mentioned a couple of times he would be satisfied if we would reach
the status of Holy Cross and B.C. so as long as we have constant
applications we know that we are meeting the needs of the times, so I
Oral History: Chester Stuart page 46
would say they also are willing to change. They are intelligent
enough and the students seem to be satisfied with the program. For a
period of time, the Nursing School was a bit shaky. Now, all of a
sudden, because of the need, the New York Times "Help WantN section
is a good weather sign to find out what you need --applications in
the Medical field, massive. Sunday after Sunday, if you read that
section, you will see that the need and Nursing has been recognized.
In my condition, I have become more
conscious of it and the nurses are paid exceptionally well. At
the same time, they are much more clever than nurses of the past
because all the advances in Medicine and in therapy, so I would say
this University is looking ahead. I would love to be around, even to
a the year 2000, 8 more years, I don't think I will because they
usually say that a stroke is 3-6 years. I'm in my third year, so I'm
counting. However, I would like to see it in the year 2000. I have
no doubt that they are here to stay, that they will prosper and
nothing will make them'budge. What we do need -- funding for the
Library because if you want to be a research institution, so that
means also all the computer equipment necessary to draw from National
Library, so funding for the library, funding for the faculty so that
they can do research. They have done wonders and they have a good
strong faculty. We have no scholars. At Fordham, I remember my
professor of Philosophy at the Graduate School, Dietrich Von
Hildebrandt, nationally known German Phrenomenologist, Father Flynn
who taught the course in Latin, Graduate Philosophy D.N.T. of
Oral History: Chester Stuart page 47
Asencia. Then we had one from Canada, now he has slipped my mind
this morning, but we do not have one who is an outstanding figure.
When Father McInnes came in in 1964, he gave us a questionnaire. He
said, What do we need?" So we filled out the questionnaire. This
may sound humorous to you. I said, "We need a good basketball team
that should be funded to keep the students happy." He identified
with immediate success. Waiting 4 years ... in basketball ... they
needed a man of this stature ... so maybe he thought it was funny at
the time, but our needs ... research, library and
endowment for visiting Jesuits. I think I've run out.
PERFECT. WE'RE ALL DONE ANYWAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
ANSWER: All right. I have a couple of things for you if you
haven't read them. This is a talk given by one of the Jesuits --
Father . I would like that back ultimately if you can. There's
one by Father Donahue you can keep. This is one that was in the New
York Times. I have continued to keep touch with and have done a lot
of reading. Then, of course, Father Kelley's latest letter and
that's what he still feels we need and what we have done. I'd like
that back. And then, as I said, oh I thought I'd show this to you.
This was 1963. This was the last Father Fitzgerald. 1963 and I just
received a salary of $7400. Well, wait to see what they did at that
time. he^ said, "Actually, you got $8000" because they counted
Social Security as a...laughter...You can have that. They always did
it, if you read the letter, the letter is always a very nice letter.
This is Father McInnes' letter and you will enjoy it.
Oral History: Chester Stuart page 48
THIS IS A GREAT REHEARSAL AND NOW WE'LL DO THE TAPE!!!
ANSWER: W e l l , 1'11 see you next year -- laughter. 1'11 tell you
t r u t h f u l l y , Jean, I get out very l i t t l e because I cannot walk, but
t h i s is part of my therapy. Speech therapy -- my speech t h e r a p i s t
would be proud of me because I did t a l k . I ran out of voice,
BUT WE WERE GOING FOR QUITE A WHILE.
I had fun.
Oral History: Chester Stuart page 49